Dayum! Now I might be able to use one of these.
It does male it somewhat easier for a wider range of DJs to roll up at a big club.
whoa this look teh goods - too bad i switched to traktor already - although the better native support in serato might make me dig out my old SL1
I don't understand. I have been doing this for years on my DN-HC4500. You also have more MIDI button to work with in SSL. However, never with a color screen. Album Artwork and Track Overviews is a FIRST. Very nice.
I just wish it's not completely made by plastic. I love the deck so much, but I just don't like the cheap plastic feel, eventho it's reliable
So you buy these damn things for $1200 or $1600 a pop, but you still need the SSL box for what exactly?.
Cool, now I can basically just hog up a USB port on my laptop for no reason other than to unlock SSL. Not like I need the USB ports anyway for other shit, like the CDJs for starters lol.
I wish there were support like that for traktor & 3700! Meanwhile, que can get CDJ-2000! @_@
SNIP SNIP - had to a do a bit of a clean up there. As far as I'm aware, stuff was being talked about that was pretty hush hush.
@el-oh-el - regardless of the free software stance of Serato, you still need hardware to unlock it. It's not really free, and you didn't really expect it to suddenly become free did you?
serato should release a small usb dongle version of the SL box for people who arent using it as an interface
@Gizmo - Nope, not at all, obviously they need to authenticate and make sure they are making revenue somehow, but how realistic or intuitive is it to have a dangling, unused interface taking up 1 of the 2 USB ports on a MacBook Pro (which of course a large portion of people use when it comes to digital DJ work). By the logic of this hardware layout, I would either need to drop $2000+ on a 17" MacBook Pro model with 3 USB ports, or lug around a USB hub which (favorably) has multi transaction translators given that both HID and audio are being transferred over the same cable.
Free or not, at that rate I could just buy Traktor Pro, install it, and use it without having to sacrifice a USB port for nothing other than having permission to use something I rightfully bought.
I myself wouldn't mind giving SSL a shot since it looks great and all, but Serato really needs to look into solutions with respect to not forcing people to slave a USB port just to open a program. They should just provide hardware identifier numbers with SSL boxes which can be registered with Serato and allow you to unlock the interface.
Just to clarify; yes, you still require SSL hardware of some variety as that's where the audio is routed. The CDJs are HID controllers only.
can you please post a high res wallpaper version of that image?
@Pulse - thanks for clarifying that, didn't see that in the article (just re-read it, unless I missed something). so at least the usage of the USB port is justified.
Its cool that they implemented Serato support for the CDJ's, but it blows that you are prevented from using the built in sound interface on those ~$2000 decks because Serato only wants you to use their sound interface. I'm not saying it's a shitty interface, I just think that options would be nice.
Anyhow, I'll end my rant and just stick with using Traktor lol.
seriously they need to rework the traktor hid support for cdj900/2000 it seems like they did the job half-way and then stop before it was finished - the hid support is very far from perfect, the jogwheel latency still needs to be fixed (Thats the main concern) - gizmo should do a video review of traktor in hid mode and see if he can scratch with those laggy hid jogwheels - make em see how bad it is
plus if pioneer can put the waveforms/cuepoints into the cdj900/2000 screen in serato(im not expecting the huge scrolling waveform - just the static where u can see the peaks would do) surely ni can also do it? they are just being lazy
Which version of Traktor are you using? v1.2.6 should fix most issues.
And I don't have CDJs, which makes it hard to do another video. Pioneer are unlikely to drop one at my house to show how allegedly poorly they work with leading software.
I absolutely crucified Traktor's HID integration in the CDJ900 review, but upgrading to version 1.2.6 has completely changed my view of it.
It's not perfect, there are still some improvements that can be made, but it is now a pleasure to use rather than an ordeal.
You can leave the Audio x DJ at home too.
im using TSP 1.2.6 with audio4dj (also got an old SL1 box stashed somewhere)
although it is sort of "plug and play" in tsp 1.2.6 version- plug in the cdj900s thru usb and then push the "link" button - then choose which deck with the encoder
all is fine until here
but when you load up a track - turn on vinyl mode - and try scratching/manipulating the sound - theres a very very very noticable lag when you release your hand from the platter - very very slow start, its like using a turntable with a very low torque and it couldnt catch up - for those who dont scratch then its not really a big deal, but for some who do its kinda annoying
also the position indicator in the middle of the jogwheel spins at a very low frame rate compared with in using cd/rekordbox - looks very choppy
i previously used the cdj400 with serato native usb support- and man it was really great - everything works perfectly and the jogwheel response is really really nice - you cant map the buttons manually but you didnt need to, this sort of shows how the 900/2000 integration will be just as nice if not better, in serato
i hope this will get ni to step their game up in terms of hid support for the pio players
Ivan - you're exactly right, the scratch platter response and the platter display are some of the improvements I was thinking about.
1.2.6 is a vast improvement on what has gone before though and if you're mixing, which is what the vast amount of owners will be using it for, the experience is pretty near perfect.
For scratching you still can't beat time-code (or for me a USB stick full of samples).
One thing that annoys me is that if you engage the vinyl mode on one deck you then have to press the vinyl mode button no less than three times on the other deck. Why???
Is this something you've come across?
It's good to hear you've had the same experience as me.
I was beginning to think I was the only one and was being punished for not having a £2500 Macbook Pro!
andrew - the vinyl mode thing : in mine sometimes if i press the vinyl mode once it doesnt really respond, i have to press it several times - is this what your talking about? if so then yes i also have this issue - also the scroll knob scrolls thru my playlist instead of my songs - weird
after all those weird things i unplugged the usb, loaded timecode.wav into rekordbox and played used the thumbdrive instead - the hid support feels like a BETA version of something isnt it?
This video seems to explain a lot.
As for Serato and Traktor HID support, it's clear that if Serato can do it, it's just down to NI to recode TSP to make it as good...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlZP3-PDkwc
All due credit to Pioneer, they always make quality kit. But I'm not sold on their approach. The point of DJing on CDJs is usually so you're not using a computer. It seems like Pioneer are trying to make the computer necessary. I understand that most of the computer based functionality can be done offline, but why require a computer at all? And if you are going to require a computer, how is this any better than just using your DVS for the functionality provided by Rekordbox? It looks like SSL and Traktor users will need to maintain 2 libraries if they use CDJs primarily, unless I've missed something. Does the metadata generated by Rekordbox eliminate the need to analyze tracks in either DVS application? If so, brilliant. If not, it seems like they've overcomplicated the process.
No hate here - just an observation.
nem0nic, the DVS HID and Rekordbox are two separate things.
Rekordbox is only used for preparation if you're wanting to use the new CDJs as DVS replacements.
You then export tracks onto a USB drive and plug that into a CDJ for playback.
This, for me, is where the new CDJs excel. You can leave a laptop and a box of CDs at home.
You get all the benefits of a DVS (okay - apart from the mammoth waveforms) without the drawbacks.
Of course, there's nothing stopping you from using a Rekordbox laptop in the DJ booth, especially if you're a mobile DJ with a massive library of tunes, but it serves no other purpose than a very expensive hard drive.
Personally, I don't see the point of taking a Rekordbox laptop out with you. It's just one more thing for some dickhead to spill Red Bull on or to get mugged for on the train home.
Everyone's different, though.
If you're using a DVS you don't need Rekordbox.
Pioneer understand that many DJs will still want to benefit from the enhanced waveforms and features of DVSs so they've included HID and a built-in soundcard to improve their experience.
Blimey.
Sorry for the long post.
Yes yes. I understand what each component is. And I appreciate the option of an offline librarian (Rekordbox). What I don't understand is why Pioneer require the use of an offline editor instead of having it as a luxury. It's not like you can get the full functionality of the CDJ alone without their software. That's my point - they now REQUIRE CDJ users to use a computer in order to take full advantage of their decks. This is a big departure from their previous hardware. So what I'm saying is I don't fully understand why Pioneer would require users to incorporate a computer into their rig, when a big chunk of those users haven't embraced DVS technology because they want no part of using a computer in their DJ rig.
It seems to me that they could have built the capability to analyze tracks into the players themselves and not alienated a segment of their user base. Yes, I understand that a computer isn't necessary for playback (as the library can be exported through the app to a storage device), but then users miss out on functionality (library cue through the mixer for example).
I think the way forward for digital DJing (at least in the short term) definitely involves computers, so I'm not even sure this is a bad thing. I just think it's a strange decision.
Why analyze a track every time you load it when you can do it once and save processign power. Denon does it this way for that reason, it's nice to see Pio following. No sense wasting CPU cycles when they can be put to better use with enhanced and more complex features.
Let a big more powerful computer do all the dirty work as it can do it more quickly. It doesn't take long to analyze 50K tracks on a Denon - maybe an hour. Then it's done. If you add tracks it's quicker - it's just prep time.
You can still opt to use a pc or not. So it's pretty modular depending on your needs.
No one said anything about analyzing a track every time it's loaded. It would be analyzed on first play, and that metadata would be stored on the storage device. Because the player has NO capability for analysis, there are many use cases where the user isn't able to fully utilize their (expensive) CDJ.
@nem0nic > With the exception of the CDJ400 and the MEP7000, there has been no prior support for mass storage devices. As anyone will tell you, the 400 without any kind of databasing didn't do it very well and the 7000 still required a library function to run over your collection in order to build a database of the tags of your tracks for searching ... and while you could do it on the unit itself, it's exponentially faster to do it on a computer.
I don't know of any DJ who doesn't OWN a computer so if they're using a mass storage device for their library, why is it a difficult leap for Pioneer to get them to use that simple tool to analyse, organize and process their library?
When using Rekordbox with the LINK function to the players, the computer acts as nothing more than a fancy hard drive with a screen and keyboard, extending the player interface. The audio data is handled through the CDJ for all the performance and requires zero processing power from the computer for those functions.
@ivan > We don't need to make a video, we know there is lag and as you noted, the CDJ400 was very tight. I'm not sure who it comes down upon to fix it up, but they have been improving it with every update from both sides.
Nobody's being "lazy", it's just a matter of what the software developers are willing to program into the software. Pioneer says "here's what our player can do" and provides the conduits, the software teams then decide what to spend their time and money on.
I know that the first round of the CDJ400's HID support was a bit buggy and lacking but now it's absolutely solid. I have nothing but the highest expectations for the 2000/900 support within the software and I know even if it's buggy out of the gate, it will get there and be fantastic.
pulse - i think you misunderstood me , i didnt blame pioneer for the poor cdj hid support in traktor - its up to native instruments to sort this out on their side. I was talking about the cdj400 hid with serato - its really great, but in traktor even with version 1.2.6 the native support with cdj400 is just not as good as the one in serato (mainly the platter issues)
If serato can really good hid mode with really good latency, theres no reason why native instruments cant do the same thing, especially with the upcoming cdj900/2000 hid in serato, it will totally make the traktor hid pale in comparison (serato hid has artwork on the cdj screen, waveforms, cue points , scratchable joghwheel etc)
quote:
"...and while you could do it on the unit itself, it's exponentially faster to do it on a computer...."
I know. And as I said, I appreciate the availability of an offline librarian for just this sort of work.
My problem with the new CDJs isn't that I don't understand some part of the functionality. It's not rocket science. What I don't understand why Pioneer would "lock away" some functionality for a known group of users. I personally think it's a mistake not to offer the ability for a player to do it's own analysis when a song doesn't already have the metadata. Maybe I could even justify not having it on the 350, as that's the low end player. But the 900 and 2000 should definitely have the power to calculate their own stripes.
This is especially true for mobile DJs that buy Pioneer for the reliability, and have chosen not to use computers to DJ. To accommodate clients that might bring music to an event, the new Pioneer owner must either bring a computer and have it connected, or lose out on some core features.
where is high res of that image?!
There isn't a high res of that image. I made it low res for the story and threw the hi res one away.
"This is especially true for mobile DJs that buy Pioneer for the reliability, and have chosen not to use computers to DJ. To accommodate clients that might bring music to an event, the new Pioneer owner must either bring a computer and have it connected, or lose out on some core features."
Keep a little netbook with you stashed away so if you need it you can connect and update, 2 min - done.
I watched the video, read the specs. It's all really cool tech... BUT...
I came away from it completely confuddled on what these things are and who they appeal to. They really are trying to be too much to too many people. If you take a step back (which I think all DJ gear devs needs to do) and ask a few core questions about their products.
are these CD players, are these controllers, are these networked devices, sound interfaces? Yup.. to all! The DJ tech industry is starting to feel like a PC and smart phone market of yesterday. Too many buttons... all getting too complicated. Should I use these with SSL, or should I use them with Rekordbox.. there's pros and cons both ways.
Why do so much with hardware when SSL and Traktor has proven that essentially all a DJ needs is laptop and a controller. That's all a TTM57SL and a couple of 1200s are essentially.
My view is that the future is in controllers, Serato has already convinced all DJs to buy laptops and move their music to digital. 90% of DJs I know have made this transition.
Why would I buy an expensive laptop, with all this processing power, and then just use it as a record box... and then send those digital files off to a separate box (expensive CDJ) to be processed, then have the processed audio sent to another box (mixer) to have it processed further with info from a duplicate box (the other CDJ). These doesn't seem efficient to me, it's crazy when it can all be done in software!
Where would I like to see this go.... "dumber" controllers, and smarter software.
I've love to see the evolution of the controller really pushed, and a bunch of legacy stuff dropped. Make a box that is road and performance ruff and ready, unlike most of the current controllers that often feel like they are targeted at the home market.
The controller (which perhaps could be the next Rane TTMxxx) I'd love to see a customisable smart touch screen, so that people could add the controller features they wanted that didn't fit on hard controls, all driven by the laptop that's connected. If I plug in my macbook, my own featureset pops up just the way I like it. Also have complete integration so I can read dynamic info from it, just as these CDJs have done with the interface between SSL now.
This concept could already be tested relatively inexpensively and also serve as a stopgap via the iPad. A SSL ipad app would be great in the interim, and I hope those kiwis are working on it as we speak. I am playing with touchOSC now and it's a great to be able to put whatever buttons I like, wherever I like them.
I'd love to see something standardised though in the "mixer"- with my audio interfaces, hard buttons and a customisable touchscreen all driven by the laptop software. Of course with cdj style or even 1200s with timecode vinyl (for the oldies like me) connected for the hands on control that is an essential part of DJing.
Moving the smarts from the hardware to software also makes things cheaper, easier to update and add features.
If the serato/rane guys can pull that off next round then we are heading to the next level, but I find it hard to believe people are still building things like CD players today.
The firmware to officially support Serato via HID with the CDJ2000 and CDJ900 was released today by Pioneer (v3.1).
@ DJ Bulge:
Mixxx aims to do exactly what you mention. In fact in some cases, we put the controller into its "dumbest" mode so we have complete control (SCS.3 series to be specific.) Seen any of the videos?
http://www.youtube.com/user/PegasusRPG
so could i use the SL3 third output with a sl1 box if I had a 1200?
...
Truly powerfull touch netbook (not ipad sorry) with leopard and some java frontend and osc send.
Then plug your soundcard (or Numark V7) and mixer/clip/drumming controllers.
Browse and select at touchscreen (without carry TWO computers please)
That's all.
...
@Colin > Yes, you simply put that deck into Relative or Absolute mode and configure the timecode within the settings; the CDJs require that the mode for the assigned decks be in Internal mode (you choose which virtual decks you connect to at startup).
On July 1, 2010, RodrigoSM.br commented...
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