hell yeah its great that vestax works together with tascam...very nice sounds interesting!

and it looks kinda sexy too...
hmmm bye the way :
do you think the loop funktion is useful ?...
so mebbe if i would buy that thingy i wont need a boss loopstation ?

So how does the scratching work on this? Is is a touch wheel like numark axis 9s? This looks so cool, like a Numark without the toy features and with vestax build quality.

it has the layout of a numark axis and looks a bit stiff or very old. The nice part is that it emulates warm analog sound. That is what I miss from todays cd players. We wil see.

my main concern is unless this is a spining platter then there is no way to keep the platter marker in sync say to do beat jugglin like the cdjs that have a visual display.

Looks like an Axis 9 killer, but you can't do anything special with mp3 discs, only playback.
No Title display, no scratching, no effects with mp3.

Well if it were to have the a1 to a4 buttons like on denon with the same function, It would kill the 5k for me

And i will take alpha track too

Is it just me or does it not actually have a scratch function then?

Or am i just missing something?

Yes, you can scratch CD audio only, same as Pro Scratch 2 & Axis 9 = Touch Sens platter.

nobody knows where i can buy it???or when...

The Tascam hookup is a pretty nice idea. It means you have a small neat compact unit for mixing and then the option to hook it up to a real turntable for scratching.
Very surprised at the price. Vestax is not particularly known for being that competitive with price.

it looks ok
im not really into all the cd decks yet.but when i do buy one it'll probly be the pioneer at the mo.
but i like it more than the numrk range.i would of thuoght it would of looked different tho being from vestax

Perhaps its pretty simliar to the new dual-cd Tascams, but a desktop version? Features seem quite samey - Tascam got to continue with what they normally would want to produce - ie a standard Dual-cd dj unit, while Vestax would produce something more in line with thier normal market, ie scratch-related goods...

£349??????

does noone else find it strange how the ability to scratch with this is not mentioned at any point in the description?

hmm...

oops - didnt read the other posts...

haha

love how i post a link to the pdf file in the comments section in the other review and it gets posted on this site minutes later..

<3

jo Q have you tested this thingy ?
can u skratch with this thingy without the tascam controller ?
and is the platter moving or more like those pioneer cd players?
..wrah just tell if u like it ;if u got your hands on it

No moving platter... :cry:

>qbert - 06-24-2004 00:28 - ip logged
>love how i post a link to the pdf file in the comments section in the other review and it gets posted on this site minutes later..

More likely to be something to do with the email I got from Vestax though... I just wasn't quick enough reading it.

>qbert - 06-24-2004 00:28 - ip logged

you're not qbert stop sucking his penis

HaterNob: yes, threehundredandfortynine fine english pounds. Not a typo.

DaCaveDwella: the Pios don't have moving platters and look at how successful they are.

Oddly this is the first CD deck that i've been interested in, price is not too bad, could be useful as athird deck in a production set up.

i aint buyin shit until its an ipod with big platter and display, burning everything to cd is tedious. i want full alpha track with scratch and fx on both channels. denon could make this but dont appear to be listening. all these midway solutions are chump change, and i speak as an s5000 owner.

its ALL about accessing your mp3s in milliseconds via a huge fluoro display set in a rubberized bombproof yet light and portable chassis. sort it out ffs. usb2, firewire, laptop hd technology, massive capacity sd cards. come on you companies, get with the program

btw the most used function on my denon is the echo.

The only reason why Pio's are popular is because that was the only choice at the time. Plus the marketing behind them was huge. Eventually the CDX-1 will take over. If not then maybe DJ's don't really care about the feel of vinyl and only care about what other people think about thier gear choices. I own a pair of CDJ-1000's. I can't wait to get on the CDX's.

the looping thing goes out the window when you use a TTM. Hell the only digital medium worth using right now in terms of juggling is the Pioneers. The digital "marker tape" jumps to the proper place of where it would land in the real world. That's the only thing that's stopping the CDXfrom being the best digital turntable.

My guess about the price being so cheap is because as a CD player to emulate scratching it probably sucks like the Numark Axis crap. The fact that it uses the Tascam TTM is probably the way they were going with it. Cheap enough for wedding DJ's to look cool, full of enough features to keep the Vestax fans, ( and I mean Vestax people who will stop at nothing to make sure that Vestax products are upheld on an altar and swear by a product that's made by them even though it sucks).....ah hem, full of enough features to keep the Vextax fans interested and keep the propaganda going.

The D/A is the only thing that I think is going to be good on this so far. I want to hear them to make a better decision. In terms of the layout it's no different than the rest of the low end CD players out there. Plus the kind of processing power to do anything on this is remaining the same. And I don't think that G3 processors are going up in price. You don't need G5 power to run a CD Player.

Again I think Vestax went with the TTM angle to save it's face. So now this is just a CD drive with an interface and applications programmed in it to work with someone elses technology. Cheap? of course it is. All the research and development was made by another company... Tascam (not to mention all the other low end CD player out there)............................now that I think of it...........

Hey wait a minute, are you guys sure this CD player isn't made by Behringer?

they could have actually put it out at £749, with a double page glossy ad of q kneeling before it. would have probably sold more in 3 weeks than denon managed all year. then they could drop the price to £399 and sell the rest, then bring out a mk2 samurai version. i should work at vestax, hook me up

I'm still hugely suspect regarding the units skratching ability for that price though, im in agreement with comments made above that it seems more probable to be Axis type skratching, and the Vestax blurb seems to carefully step around this area

Ra - For me, one of it's greatest selling points (certainly from a scratching point of view) is the Tascam TT-M1 link. If it works anywhere near as good on this new Vestax deck as it did on the Tascam double CD units at MusikMesse, this will be a winner. I don't think I'd buy one without the TT-M1.

Marketing guru - hope you had a nice holiday.

Cheers Gizmo,

Yeah i can see how beneficial that would be, and i guess for the sort of money they are talking about, it would be a viable option

The CDJ supposedly sounds more like vinyl because it reproduces frequencies that are usually lost in CD's. Is this true of the Vestax, or is it more of an effect? I wonder if Ultimate Scratch will support this, I would prefer to control it with that. By the way, the Ultimate Scratch doesn't have needle dropping does it (I don't see how it would)?

Well, it just goes to show that whatever we do, some people will always complain about it. If it is expensive we are ripping punters off, if it is cheap then we have cheated by using other comanies technology, which I guess means we are ripping punters off. If it has every feature under the sun we are ripping punters off, and if it misses a single function we are ripping punters off. Still, like the ideas from marketing guru, although I think we have (allegedly) already done that with every other Vestax product in the last 15 years.
Oh, and just because we haven't made a huge fuss about the ability to scratch on this does not mean it wont scratch. We do not only want to sell it to scratch dj's (or even skratch dj's), and in case you are unaware, promoting a product as suitable for scratching will stop many dj's from buying it purely because they do not scratch themselves.
I personally wrote the wording on that press sheet, but as I have not yet personally tried out the scratch functions I would not comment. Obviously some of the other people on this site think they know slightly more than we do!? We shall see fairly soon.

quote:

---

"Well, it just goes to show that whatever we do, some people will always complain about it. If it is expensive we are ripping punters off, if it is cheap then we have cheated by using other comanies technology, which I guess means we are ripping punters off. If it has every feature under the sun we are ripping punters off, and if it misses a single function we are ripping punters off. Still, like the ideas from marketing guru, although I think we have (allegedly) already done that with every other Vestax product in the last 15 years.
Oh, and just because we haven't made a huge fuss about the ability to scratch on this does not mean it wont scratch. We do not only want to sell it to scratch dj's (or even skratch dj's), and in case you are unaware, promoting a product as suitable for scratching will stop many dj's from buying it purely because they do not scratch themselves.
I personally wrote the wording on that press sheet, but as I have not yet personally tried out the scratch functions I would not comment. Obviously some of the other people on this site think they know slightly more than we do!? We shall see fairly soon."

---

HO! HUM!!!

It's a tablist orientated website, obviously people are going to be interested in the products ability to scratch, so no point breating people for not seeing the questions they got answered.

Don't put things out to press if you don't want people to talk about it, simple innit?

I think it's the way people talk about products that is often the problem - more in a negative light about the possible shortcomings rather that having good words to say about the plus points. And hating on a brand is wrong - each and every manufacturer has had a dog of a product. Judge a product on it's merits, not it's logo.

Personally speaking, a single CD player with such features and the ability to use vinyl decks - for £349 should be welcomed with open arms. Time will tell if it measures up but nobody is in any position to say it's crap without ever having used one.

We put it to press, or at least sent it to Gizmo, because he requested it. It will also go to many different places, many not aimed at tablists. I did actually tell Gizmo that you can scratch with this machine before we sent this sheet. We (I) tried to get you some info to help you see what was happening. It was not meant to be a complete explanation of every single feature, and, as I said, I have not tried the scratch function myself and therefore did not want to make too much of it.

Would you rather we did not support the site? So no kit for reviews and no-one to aim your comments at? We do have other options but felt it would be nice to be involved. By all means let us know if you want us to pull out, we dont want to upset you, just help you understand what is really happening rather than only getting rumours or incorrect "facts".

yo!

"high quality master tempo function the sound quality does not deteriorate"

DOES THAT MEAN REAL TIME TIME STRECHING???????????

@ Gizmo,

yeah completely agree with you on everything you've said mate, hence i said it's the first CD deck i'm actually quite interested in.

@ vestax, uhm! yeah ok mate whatever.

All i'm saying is this is a DJ site aimed at scratchers, and a bloody good one, so don't be surpirsed that the main point of interest is the unit's abilities to emulate scratching, which by your own admision the article barely touches on.

I don't really see anyone actually slagging the product off, just a few poeple speculating what it may or may not do in the world of tablisim. Persoanlly if they are wrong I'd try to put em straight, not have a dig at them for wondering out loud.

peace

For such a big company, the Vestax responses seem particularly aggressive and provoking.

People on here have every right to ask questions and make comments. Does releasing it at that price belittle people's money then? Are you suggesting that we are lucky to be getting a product at this price and shouldnt be thoroughly examing the product.

Remember that this site is as beneficial to you guys as it is to us - it's well respected with many very intelligent people on here and i suspect you appreciate how much you learn about your own product from this community

"Personally speaking, a single CD player with such features and the ability to use vinyl decks - for £349 should be welcomed with open arms."

Plus £69 for TT-M1 Gizmo...

Mr Vestax UK... will you send a unit to test to Gizmo?

18.10 - Maybe there could be a package deal available?

re: Monk-A
I have not suggested the site is not good, and if it was not good we would not be here having this conversation. I do realise it is aimed at the tablist market but didn't have time to write anything specific for this site. Gizmo asked me for info and this was still being finalised, but to help I sent it to him. I had also supplied some (very limited) additional info to Gizmo about the product.
My comments are aimed at those who either make assumptions about the features (they cant know facts becuase they have not used the product) and those who almost always complain about either price or lack of something rather than looking at what (any) products DO have. At present all anyone knows is what has been written here (and on similar sites), as no-one outside of Japan has actually used this machine. We have already offered to get a test unit to Gizmo as soon as we get hold of them, and I have promised to give him a more detailed report of it's abilities when I have tested it myself in about 10 days time. Then we can all make some more sensible comments on it.
Re: Ra
Size of company and aggressive/provocative comments dont seem to have a link, but I guess you may be surprised if you knew more about us. I didn't mean these to be either aggressive or provocative, and I have nothing against people asking questions as that is why I spend some of my time talking with people like Gizmo and answering these sites. I am certainly not belittling peoples money, but it seems strange that normally people claim Vestax is too expensive, but this product is cheap and so "some" are saying it must be either poor quality or someone elses idea. So I was just saying it seems we cannot win. We spend a lot of time getting feedback from lots of dj's across many music styles, including looking at comments on Skratchworx, as we hope this allows us to make the products which you want. Sometimes we dont get it right, the same as every company out there, and if anyone actually knew us personally they would know we are extremely honest about our products. But also there are times when products have to appeal to a wider potential market than purely tablists, and therefore features may be included or missing which don't fit in with the tablists dreams. If we asked everyone here to list the features of their own perfect mixer I would expect almost everyone to have a different list...this means it is impossible to make the mixer exactly what you want so we have to decide on what features we should include and which should be left off. Often we will not include a feature if it is already available on a similar mixer (either ours or someone elses) because we want the new mixers to be different from those already available.
Having said that I do think that generally people should be grateful they have such a massive choice of products. Products are much cheaper than they used to be and instead of one or two companies making them you now have maybe 10 companies all producing a wide variety of products aimed at many different variations and styles of dj'ing. In the last 10 years the changes have been amazing, and it is easy to forget that. We want your comments, but we want constructive comments, they dont have to be all saying it is good, but if you think it is not good tell us why. And remember that someone else may think the opposite and we have to take their views as well.

Good Post Vestax.

I've had plenty of experience dealing with your company, you did sponsor Needlework after all, and they've always been pretty good.

look forward to seeing a full review from the S'worx guys.

ooh - theres a post up there from 'Vestax UK'

see - the industry heads do look at the message boards

now all they have to do is listen....

boom...

vestax...your digging deep...it's best for companies to keep silent...don't loose the way of the ninja and become like everyone else...most kids don't have any concept of the music industry or the music market...please hire me...I need a job...got a daughter to support...as for this vestax cd player...it will cater to those who need the features...I doubt a scratch dj will pick up a couple of these units unless it is just to play beats with a qfo or something...but for the younger dj market...they will find this unit to be off the shizzle...

gizmo...yes the cdj was a hit...but just like the technics 1200 it was the first...I do say that the software in the cdj is still better than the cdx but hopefully numark will upgrade software to live up to par...the only bad on the cdx is the master tempo features and when scratchin with effects on...other than that with all the effects off when scratchin the cdx is the shizzle...master tempo and effects are aight when just playing cd's...

who have designed the pc 05 ??????????

Good shit vestax. I'm stoked that you guys are checking this site out and that we get the chance to hear what's going on straight from the horse's mouth. But also bear in mind that this is an open forum, nobody has to pass the bar to have their say, as such you get lots of people blathering... which is a good thing because as a rule they're honest opinions.

Look everyone,

this is a wedding DJ upgrade CD player or a begining DJ CD setup with the option to TTM. I don't think this player sucks because of the price. I think it's great because of the price. If Vestax were to keep the price it's "Vestax" price then this would be an incredible waste of money.

And to the vestax reps online.....
sorry but this is just your everyday joe-blow DJ CD player. That's why it's being compared to the Axis and such. This is a scratch DJ website of course so expect the comments that you hear from it. Mind you some of the people that make comments shouldn't be because of lack of experience (ie The Denon users that CANNOT feel the immense lag in scratching an MP3 on a Denon deck. But when it's not an MP3 the deck works great). The only thing that's keeping our attention is the TTM connection. The scratching ability of this product? Let's get real. There's no way you can "surprise" me with that interface. I'll put that deck beside a Denon S3K, Pioneer CDJ, Technics DZ, and Numark CDX anyday and say that the Vestax deck doesn't cut it. The wheel interface can't handle the hands of a scratch DJ. But the price sure does handle our wallets.

By the way, spelling scratch with a "k" is another reason why no one takes scratch DJ's seriously as a musician. The more slang we put on our language the more we look "dumb and uneducated" to society. Remember, scratching is just noise to the majority of the world. But if you do it musically........ that's different.

Gizmo!- I've got that response to that musicality article coming. But it's going to be looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

So, who decides what "musically" is - you? Whether someone finds something to be good sounding music or noise is subjective. Whether we use slang or not is also irrelevant. Obviously, if I'm trying to communicate something to someone outside of the scene that doesn't understand the jargon, than I don't use it, but amongst people that do understand the slang there shouldn't be a problem. I guess my main question would be why you are so concerned and preoccupied with "proving" the legitimacy of DJing/Turntablism/Turntable Instrumentalism, whatever you want to call it to people that don't want to accept it?

all this talk but the unit hasn't been tested yet... i want some FACTS as some people-not mentioning any names-are giving silly OPINIONS .

RE: Vestax UK

I tip my hat to you... a very well reasoned response and certainly more in keeping with the image i have of Vestax. I think perhaps the points you cover in your post answer the main question - that people arent entirely sure where this product is aimed or fits in. So maybe in fairness to you guys it's something that the marketing and PR team will clarify when the product is launched.

Anyhoo, cheers for taking the time to respond

We respect your views and appreciate your comments. We want to continue designing more new and exciting kit for you and pushing the boundaries of technology on. We could hide behind aliases but I would prefer to be able to be open with you all. The internet has many good points, but is also open to complete s**t being put about with no recourse for those spreading it, so we have to be careful. We dont claim that every prodsuct we build is the best thing ever, but we do try to create stuff which is new (most of the time).
To show our honesty I have spent the last 2 years telling potential customers to buy either the Pioneer or Denon cd players as we had nothing to offer, and this machine is not going to take any of those units on directly, but it does give people another choice, and hopefully at a slightly more affordable price. Other companies make some very good units, and we will be the last people to slag even something like the SL-1200 off as we know they are good and have proved themselves over many years. Hopefully being involved in sites like this will help us improve even more in the future. Lets keep it all positive and sensible, we dont want to create bad feelings with anyone.

sup gizmo,
do u know who have designed the pmc 05 pro???

I've seen the Tascam interfase in scratch action and it sounded more then ok. The interfase was with a different brand cd player then Vestax but I'm sure it will work like a sharm. I think you would be surprised how well it works. So I would not immediately write it off as non-scratchable...

The PMC-05Pro was orignally designed by engineers at Vestax in Japan, with input and assistance from Qbert and the ISP's. It was first released in the UK in November 1995 but had already been selling in Japan for a few months.

Ummm, is similar to other player's the low price, My preferer is DENON S5000 turnable, 16 seg sampler x2, alpha track, mirror mix, and hot disc. + other funtion in platter mode and hot star point, is very very good...

DENON FOR LIVE BABY ! VESTAX contunued in VINIL Marketing. hehehe

-SALUDOS from CHILE

PIPO-DJ
www.denonlatino.com

This player is really good for what it costs. It's not going to sound like a pioneer because the pioneer players run of extremely highend processors that cost $150 themselves. Its merely a tool thats meant for people that are going to begin, to compare this unit to a pioneer cdj mk2 is assinine. Personally I'm not going to get these because I have CDJ-800s and I have no reason to upgrade until the pioneer rolls out with a new batch. Personally I don't like getting 3rd party products to add on. I like everything contained in one unit, less to go wrong.

From what I've seen the pioneers are still top on the market. At my local GC I haven't seen more then two technics DZ move at all, and this is in the bay area of all places. I don't like denons because the player is flimsy (IMO) and I don't like ther internet fanboy marketing techniques they use. The CDX is awesome, but I use my CDJs more for mixing then skratching. If someone is really debating over cdjs there's only two companies that have done it right, numark and pioneer. Go with numark if you want the tradional feel of viynl, or go with pioneer if you plan to do mixing. I also like the pioneer because its not as big as the CDXs.

when everyone tells the other DJ to stop "doing that scratching thingy" and same people tell me that "what I'm doing sounds cool and they've never heard anyone do it like that before", that means I'm on the right track with musicality. Most DJ's don't know shit about the way music works on a technical level. Everytime I tried to talk music with real musicians they'd laugh at me. My passion for music got stronger and I decided to learn about music. And not just by buying books, reading THEN calling myself a musician. I'm talking about saving the money, getting loans and taking music lessons, attending college on a REAL instrument and showing the musician circle where I'm from how to drop ignorance and see that the scratch sound CAN be musical. Most REAL musicians will know what is musical and what is not. Subjectivity? sure. But when people who don't understand what your doing tell you that what your doing is cool and sounded better than the last guy in a backwards hat, baggy clothes and fake chains was doing then that must mean something close to traditional music must be happening. I'm about to get my degree in music, and I've study with some of the world's most hard core and best musicians. I'm fortunate to live in the country that I do and have amazing musicians here. Oh yeah, the scratch DJ's are good also.

Yo Half, Could you contact me directly please ?

i have had a go on the TTM1 with the Tascam cd x1500 and it was great, yes the cd player is not the greatest but it is a solid reliable unit, it is all about the TTM1, i beleave it will be the same with the Vestax player.
Yes this is a scratch board and that is why i am suprised you lot are not embracing these products with open arms or are you all (with the exception of a few) stuck in the past (about 20 yrears ago) with your Technics which have been betterd in every department (just look at there p!ss poor tone arm and now quite week motor, oh plus the fuses that go all the time).
Think what this product will allow you do do, just for a bit. First it will allow you to controll cd's (including mp3's) like you would do on a turntable, why, because you are using the turntable you like, even the record you like the feel off so the feel is as good as your turntables. now think about this. A 3-4 channel mixer, you assign a turntable to crossfader side A and one of the cd's on a seperate channel to crossfader side A, you can now scratch two samples at the same time with the same thing happening to both samples, now beat that with a Pioneer.
Afer havong a go with the Tascam TTM1 i will be selling my CDJ800 for either the tascam cd player or probably the Vestax player, this is not because i am stupid, a silly little dj that knows nothing but because i can see allot more benifits with the Vestax/Tascam system rather then the Pioneers.
The reason i will most likely go with the Vestax is because of the table top design that will allow me to have more accurate controll in mormal dj use (over a dual player) when i want to use the product in that way.
If you can not tell yet, so far i am backing Vestax all the way right now, they revolusionised the turntable with the PDX2000 (comare that to the Technics 1200), the invent of PCV faders (which pushed other companies to come up with comparable (and now better) faders) (comapre this to the Technics fader in there mixer which goes after 2 months (if you are luckey). They are due a great product in the cd area, and with the TTM1 i think this is it. And i like companies working together, shareing technoligy, it makes there products better.
And for the people who want MP3's at a drop of the hat with a large jog wheel, ever heard of Final/Serato scratch. Do your reasearch, there is allot of products aimed at the scratch DJ keeping to what you like, the turntable
Rant over

Can someone please explain how the loop works on this thing? the image is too small for me to read the loop buttons. Can you do loop rolls? like when you loop it by 1 beat, then 1/2 1/4 1/8. Thanks. Also it goes to -6% does this mean the most accuracy you can reach in pitch is 0.05? What is the most accurate pitch increments you can get?

yeah what does the pitch increase at when its -/+ 6?

Wozza's post is one of the funnest things i've ever read...

peace

Monk-A

monk-a,

i previously posted my idea about the ttm1. you can use the ttm1 AND the turntable the same time if you hook it right. if you arrange your samples right you can skratch chords and shit like that. like ttm1 is the trumpet and record has bass...

what you think?

Eemo1 r u wozza? if so i wasn't having a pop, i just thought your rant was funny.

Splitting the samples over the two formats is i think a good idea, especially the fact it could open up chords and harmonies

I think a good example, but not quite the same is Woody's two turntable same record three channel mixer example on his site.

The problem with having both sounds like that though is your restrcited to the same record movment for both sounds...

Not many pieces of music allow instruments to play the same way.

Like a bass line usually counters the melody, and so on... but yeah i think you've got a good idea.

peace

Monk-A

Halfsemitone, whether you went to school, or someone who isn't into scratching likes it or if it's "traditional music" (whatever the hell that is) or you get a piece of paper saying that so-and-so approves your status as a musician or any of that is irrelevant. That's like saying that Rock 'N Roll guitarists should just not play it in that way because people that don't like Rock will like it/appreciate it. So, what you're really talking about is making turntables sound like other instruments which isn't the definition of "musical". Not all music follows the European system or concepts of music (like, Hip-Hop, where turntable musicianship comes from, for example). Basically, the real problems stem from your biases/prejudices, ego, and deep need to be accepted by others. So, by all means, leave the turntables alone, learn to play Beethoven on a "real instrument", and hang out with your ignorant elitest university buddies while talking shit about what we do to feel superior. Leave the turntables alone. Good riddance. Asshole.

wozza:

errr yes i have heard of final/serato scratch ffs. ye gods. i said bombproof rubberized chassis, ipod with platter. clues that im not talking about taking a flimsy laptop into the shithole clubs of the uk and relying on it not to crash. i dont want to use coded vinyl and have to recalibrate and still worry about tweaking needles and skips/jumps in 2004. i want a dedicated unit with instant-on bugfree OS that happens to utilise the best mp3 file access features of computers, with all the ports, without the flakiness.

im not wozza, why?

wow, there are tough people here too.

A response to IPSO's comment:

-a piece of paper doesn't mean anything unless I have the skills. That's why I go to school and learn, or else I would have bought a piece of paper and printed out the word "degree in music" with my name on it and told the world that I'm a musician. You can't read a engine repair manual straight through and expect to repair an engine as soon as you finish the book. To be a mechanic you must be learn from mechanics. To be a musician you must learn from musicians.

-Rock guitarists play that way because they defined a genre that swept the world over overnight . There are more people out there that like guitars better than turntables. The only reason why turntables outsold guitars at one point is because DJ's who started out bought them by the pair. You usually don't own more than one guitar until you've reached a certain level of guitar playing.

Turntablism is a slow growing and "trend" based "fad" for now that only had the hardcore survive. I've seen many people sell thier tables, mixers and records after a year because they didn't think it would take skills to acutally scratch. After all the excess is done with turntables the real musicianship will come about. Hey man, Cajons were just boxes that on the docks in Latin America then developed into a respected percussion instrument. This is what I want for the turntable.

-You're right IPSO lots of music is not based on the European system like the Indian solkatu rhythm counting method. Those are based on drums sounds not numbers like the Western world. Hip-Hop is not based on the "European system". Hip Hop was based on taking samples of other people then piecing them together. You CAN express hip-hop with the "European system" but would come up short due to the inefficiencies of the system itself. But most of the hip hop today has been watered down to the point were you don't need to express the music in "European system" form. You just slap it together as fast as you can and sell it to turn a quick profit.

-You're right IPSO, I'm biased towards the digital sound but the analog feel. I have an ego yes, I'll agree with you there. But I can back up everything I say and stand for. I'm not going to play the role of the neutral thinker that doesn't want to step on anyones toes.

-And of course I want to be accepted. It's like the whole world feeling the same way about the industry that they're in. I want to be accepted by the people in my field. Which is musicianship. I'm a musician so of course I want to be accepted by musicians. Doctors want to be accepted by other doctors. Lawyers by other lawyers. Having the attitude of "fuck everyone else, I'm cool with playing every other instrument myself" is terrible.

-I can't leave the tables alone, it was my first instrument but I find it's the most misunderstood because it's new. I stepped away from the "pure hip hop" mentality and decided to bring them into new genres. When it comes to playing Beethoven on a real instrument, I will do exactly what you say. Leave the turntables alone. Because I don't think there's a way to play his pieces through scratching on a turntable. If so then consider me wrong. I've got no problem admitting that. Plus it doesn't have to be Beethoven to be difficult. I can play the Miguel Anga Diaz conga solo of five drums and still find the level of difficulty to get all the nuances right.

-As far as ignorant elitest university buddies, again you're right. My buddies are ignorant. They don't understand that the turntable can be used as a musical instrument. This is the view I want to fix because I take turntablism so seriously. They see too many electronica DJ's that do nothing but play records, then play another record, then another. Finally, they think THAT'S what turntablism is. THAT'S ignorance if I ever saw it. There are very few scratch DJ's that can keep it musical and that's what they hardly ever see because the acronym "DJ" is synonymous "Scratch DJ". There's a big difference but most don't understand that.

-I talk shit about what you do because I want you to see people push past what's out there right now for turntablism. I see the same juggling sets, juggle over and over and over. Great you can make 100 beats out of 2 beats. That really is an incredible feat. But don't you think that only a room full of DJ's would appreciate that and not a crowd of people who don't know the difference between the beat that you made in the first 2 minutes compared to the last 40 mintues of straight juggling? Feel superior? nah. I just wish that DJ's would take thier craft to the next step and work with bands and other musicians instead of becoming a hermit and making another 40 mintue set of juggling by themselves.

-Thanks for the asshole comment. That shows integrity and the level of character you present. I'm glad to have had this debate with you.

The pitch is a variable resistor and therefore is continuous between the +/- extremes selected. There are options of 6, 10, 50 and 100%. 6% will be basically the same as a Technics deck, 10% is similar to the PDX-2000/2300 etc. 100% is a new feature, and means you can stop the player using the pitch, allowing some possible intereting new techniques.
With regards to the loop facility I have not yet tried it so I cannot comment. However if anyone has tried the Tascam twin units they may be able to explain how this feature works as it will probably be the same on this unit. I will have more info for you all in about 10 days.

Eemo1,

only cos you said what he said about 3 channel mixer and using the turntable to scratch two things at once...that was all.

soz for the confusion..

peace
Monk-A

halfasemitone;

all of what you are saying has already been done, gaining adegree in music, will not make you a musician, it will ot make you a better tablist, it will also not make you accepted by other musicians.

But i think it's an admirable thing to do, more stirngs to your bow and such..

Although i agree we should educate ourselves, on all music, i don't think the problem lies within the Genre Turntablisim, i think it lies in the close mindedness of other poeple.

So for acceptance of this artform, surely a better route is to eductae the uneductaed and not seek acceptance.

i agree only music is going to make this artform/genre/whatever accepted, but why do we have to make the turntable only mimic other instruments and there style of play?

Surely if that's what you want to do, just go straight to the instrument and do it properly and better?

If you want to compare instrumenst yu have to accept that not al instruments are created equal, yt all serve their purpose, i don't think people fully understand the Turntables purpose fully yet.

peace

Monk-A

But, what you're failing to realize is that a musician is still a musician whether someone likes it or not, or regardless of the way the person learned, and you're also failing to realize that a piece of paper doesn't mean you have skills, it means that you completed a course. Also, art is not some left brained thing where there is some exact method employed in order to accomplish a task. Art is SUBJECTIVE (which you strangely agreed with, but then contradicted yourself).

Again, how many people like something is irrelevant. I guess that would mean that a cheap trinket painting that I can buy at the store is better than one of the masterpieces because more people "get" that and think that it's pretty. Another reason why more people like the electric guitar is that it is mainstream and people are familiar with it - it has also been around longer. I'm not even talking about sales, that's just because of the trend. Some people love the way that Jimmi Hendrix plays, other people consider it crappy, annoying noise. That goes for whole genres as well. Who's right? I guess someone needs to call up all the untrained musicians out there to tell them that they aren't REAL musicians. Since you and all the snobs deemed yourselves to be the judge, I think that you guys should do it.

You can't MAKE people respect something. Even if you do water it down, misrepresent it and cross it over to their sensibilities.

I'm not talking about pop music disguised as Hip-Hop, I'm talking about Hip-Hop (yeah, it still exists). Also, there is the element of "taking other people's music", but I can make Hip-Hop with or without doing that, and drum machines, keyboards, human beatboxing, and live instrumentation have also always been elements of Hip-Hop, some going back to the beginning, and some arriving with the recorded format. I agree, you can use that system, but Hip-Hop, as well as all African or Afro-Diaspora based music DO NOT FOLLOW THAT LOGIC (which, incidentally, is one reason why a lot of people DO NOT UNDERSTAND OR LIKE IT, INCLUDING - YES - "TURNTABLISM", because of the false belief that "one size fits all" so to speak).

Well, if you're biased that means that you are not objective, which means that you think inside of a box and will only be able to see things from the point of view of that box. As far as backing it up goes, so what? Anyone can back up anything that they say, like me for instance - that doesn't mean that you are right, not that you would know anyway because, by your own admission, you are biased with an egotistical outlook.

What an absurd contradiction. You say that scratch DJ's aren't musicians, but at the same time, speak of "real musicians" as your peers. Must be the ego thing. Or, let me guess, YOU are the only turntablist that's a REAL MUSICIAN. By the way, that deep-seated need to be accepted is called INSECURITY. Of course you want RESPECT from others, (which you don't give any of us) but you shouldn't have to have approval to feel legitimate.

Why wouldn't you leave the tables alone? You obviously have no respect for them (or anyone on them). Your claims are all contradictory and nonsensical. Was it your first instrument or is it not a real instrument? Or is it just you that they're an instrument for? Yes, you could play Beethoven or anything else on them, but why would you want to? That's not what you use them for. As far as the other genres thing, yeah, that's cool, but it is Hip-Hop, no matter what. A tree cut off from it's roots dies.

You take it so seriously? Are you for real? Unless someone totally sucks and has no skills, than scratching itself IS musical. There is no difference.

I have a question. How do you know what I do? You don't even know me and I assume that you don't know most people on this forum. You have no idea about what I or any of these people you don't know do musically. That's the ultimate example of your arrogance. Also, just for your information, I am also a "real musician" and don't just play the turntables. I also studied Music Theory and some other conventional things concerning music. I wanted to learn about music from that perspective to broaden my understanding of music. At first it just got in the way, because most of it wasn't relative. Now it helps because I reconciled that with my old way of thinking. I'm all for pushing things to new heights but I'm also for old ways of doing things and the basics. Also, The Berklee School of Music recognizes turntablism, but I guess that you are on a higher level than they are. What about Scratch Academy in New York? What you need to realize, halfsemitone, is that music is music whether you like it or not, and that there are many different styles, techniques and approaches towards creating it. Maybe they should have taught you that at school.

Isn't that what you did, indirectly by talking about us not being real musicians, and mocking "baggy clothes and backwards hats" and all of that, and having that attitude? Yeah, it is. The difference is, I just came out and said it instead of implying it. Not only that, I backed it up. Like the saying goes, "If it walks like a duck.....". That's exactly how I felt about your insults and pompous comments, and I voiced my opinion over it. That sounds like integrity to me.

Talking of biased, can we get this section back to comments about this cd player? I think I prefered it when people were being nasty about the products, now it has degenerated further to personal insults. As I mentioned previously, if you all want your comments to be taken seriously by the manufacturers, etc then you need to get back to the point of the site.

If you read my first paragraph in the last comment i say that a piece of paper doesn't mean anything unless I have the skills. So in other words I have to have the skills. I didn't say that a piece of paper is going to make a musician in no time.

Untrained musicians are untrained musicians. They are still musicians they are just untrained. Telling then they're not musicians is counter productive. A person who let's go of a record to play another persons music in NOT a musician. A person who manipulates a record in a forward and backward motion, cuts the volume on and off in time IS a musician. That's where I put the comparison on what DJ is a musician or not. That means to me a guitarist who is playing records between sets at a live music show just playing records and NOT doing something musical. The fact that the person studies and plays guitar makes them a musician. Scratch DJ's ARE musicians all I'm saying is most Scratch DJ's don't know how to do it musically. I understand your point of subjectivity on this view but, come on, there's got to be some sort of relative comparison of whether or not some peoples scratching is musical or not. DJ Qbert? VERY musical scratching. A DJ who just bought turntables and a mixer and is learning the art? NOT musical scratching only because of the lack of experience but the passion to learn is commendable.

"You can't MAKE people respect something. Even if you do water it down, misrepresent it and cross it over to their sensibilities."

Good comment and I agree with you there. But why are there articles on turntables being an instrument or not? In the other news post article it was commenting on the turntable to be respected as an instrument. That part of the article should just be taken out because "You can't MAKE people respect something."

I'm biased towards the digital sound and the analog feel. That's what I said in my other post. I've seen DJ'ing from many angles over the past 15 years. I don't like the problems that come with analog turntable. The good on a CDJ-1000 far outweigh it's bad points and made me switch. But I still missed the analog feel. That's why I want a CDX. That's what I'm biased towards. If I was in a box I wouldn't have studied music. I would have just stayed being a DJ that played music and entered the DMC's every year trying to win a title. And I wouldn't be so quick to say egotistical outlook. I'd say a more realistic outlook.

"What an absurd contradiction. You say that scratch DJ's aren't musicians, but at the same time, speak of "real musicians" as your peers."

You're right that IS an absurd contradiction. But what I was saying is that DJ's who play music record after record aren't musicians. DJ's who scratch ARE. And also, most scratch DJ's who TRY to scratch don't do it musically. But that doesn't mean they're not musicians. I'm just saying that most scratch DJ's are doing the same thing and not being musical about it. And I'm not talking just about scratching, I'm talking about playing over someone when they're not supposed to. Understanding and feeling groove. School can't teach you to feel groove. Listening will. And that's where I feel most DJ's fall short. The listening aspect. Anyone here know how to scrach in Clave? I do. I understand how clave works because I listen to alot of clave based music.

Insecurity of musicianship sure, because I take it so seriously. That's the industry I choose to be in. Insecure about being the worlds best scratch DJ? nah. I'd rather diversify. Insecure about my scratching skills? nope. I've got many years of training under my belt and lots of battle experience.
Insecure of being a better musician? Geez of course! But learning.

Respect from others within an industry and "feeling legitimate" about level of ability are two different things. Respect from others? Obviously you hate me so I don't want your respect. Feeling legitimate over level of ability? Read the previous paragraph. Insecurity has such a negative connotation to it. And it shouldn't. I'm sure you've got your set of insecurities IPSO, just like the rest of human population and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Turntables were my first instrument when I started using them as an instrument. At the time I used them as that I wasn't playing percussion, bass, drums, and keys. Now I do all those in that order table, perc, bass, drum and keys. To tell you the truth I did leave the tables alone at one point. I left them because of people like Roc Raider who won the 1995 DMC worlds on the basis of shitty juggling with body tricks. Then he told the audience to "suck his mother fuckin' dick". That doesn't give turntablism a good view. It was DJ Noise who should have taken it.

"You take it so seriously? Are you for real? Unless someone totally sucks and has no skills, than scratching itself IS musical. There is no difference."

Of course I take scratch DJing seriously. That's why I'm here. By the comment you made about someone totally sucking you're saying that beginners that have no skills and suck are NOT musical. (speaking of contradictions). And if you can't hear the difference, then buddy, read the comment I made about the lack of listening that DJ's do. Do you scratchin 2-3 or 3-2 clave?

"I wanted to learn about music from that perspective to broaden my understanding of music. At first it just got in the way, because most of it wasn't relative. Now it helps because I reconciled that with my old way of thinking."

This is the only reason why I spend time arguing with you. I'm not claiming to know you and I never did. I don't know about the people on this website. I'm watching as many videos online or through friends to see what's going on in the scratch DJ world today. And so far it's the same thing since the 90's. It's the same juggle set with different records. You also state that studying music helps. That's why I think they should be teaching music history, music theory, rhythm studies, improv, and so on to scratch DJ's. The Berklee School of Music recognizes turntablism but doesn't make it a Major. It's just classes on scratching no different if you watched their video or read their book. It's small but it's a start. Scratch Academy? I'd much rather go to Berklee. There's not enough in the Scratch Academy curriculum to make it a full time course. That should be offered with other aspects of music like the ones I've stated above. You're right music is music whether I like it or not and of course there's many styles no debate there. They DID teach me that in school, but they also taught me the rules then told me to break them. I wish that scratch DJ's would. I still see the same juggles and scratches on all the videos from the late 90's to now.

"As far as backing it up goes, so what?"
"The difference is, I just came out and said it instead of implying it. Not only that, I backed it up."

Which one is it going to be IPSO?

If calling someone "Asshole" sounds like integrity to you well then I extend my hand to you in this debate and say with true conviction to a worthy adversary "Thank you for the debate, Asshole?"

VESTAX UK - I think we've all exhausted the fact that this CD player isn't pushing boundaries, it's just keeping up with the market of lower priced CD Players. IPSO is the only person so far that has stood up here. We may butt heads but at least someone is standing here. Mind you I could do without the

Vestax UK:
The beauty of the internet!
Anyway regarding the pitch ranges. Are you saying the deck is under total analog control? I would have thought it would be a digitally controlled stepped fader. This comes back to resolution which is always a hot topic regarding most of the dj cd players.
On the Denon DN-S3/5000 the selectable ranges have different resolutions (obviously related to how many physical steps you can get on a 100mm fader).
On the +/-4% range this is 0.02% step increments. This is a very good level of accuracy for mixing I find. Although a Technics fader is analog from a very rough point of view it feels like an equivalent stepping of about 0.05% stepping or thereabouts. On higher pitch ranges the resolution drops. I find 0.1% steps on the Denon's 10% range uncomfortable to mix with to be honest.

So do you know what the exact stepping is on the pitch ranges.
Denon updated the DN-S5000 from 0.05% steps to 0.02% steps on their +/-4% range which was a nice bit of extra accuracy.
The Cdj-1000 has 0.02% steps on a 6% range (I think).

Beauty is, allegedly, in the eye of the beholder....

Anyhow I do not have details of the pitch ranges but I will try to find out for you. There was a lot of confusion on the PDX-2300 because the pitch read-out led only had 1 decimal place and therefore many people claimed it was not accurate enough. However the fader was not only adjusting in the same increments as the led read-out. Another of those great mis-truths spread by the internet world!!

Intersting question though, we have different comments made about the resistance of the pitch faders. Some say less resistnace makes easier and smaller adjustments possible, whilst other say that they think more resistance has the same effect. What is the general opinion here? Loner pitch faders obviously can help you get better accuracy as well, but this can be limited by physical limitations. So do you prefer longer or shorter pitch controls?

I think the standard 100mm style pitch fader is just about right. This seems to give a decent level of analog resolution on normal turntables.
Personally I prefer a pitch fader with more physical resistance. I found the original ultra-slippery PDX-2000 pitch fader too loose. I think it's because when mixing it's nice to have a little bit of resistance to push against for nudging the pitch control. It makes it easier for someone to move it the smallest physical step to nudge a track back in time. Also although some might say the low resistance fader is better for tones or whatnot - it's not like we are all so feeble we couldn't push against more resistance. So overall i don't see a lot of advantage to making the pitch fader with very little resistance.
I've always thought it would be nice to have an 'ultra-fine' secondary pitch fader as well. So like the ultra-pitch but one that does +/-0.5%. Or have a switch that would toggle the ultra-pitch between a super fine and super coarse mode?
I don't know physically how accurate you can get an analog turntable to play back at. Maybe there are mechanical restrictions regarding wow and flutter etc. I think there is a little room for improvement - as i notice the PDX-2000 has a more accurate pitch control than a Technics SL when mixing. It seems finer - like you can get closer to the other turntable - which means less nudging mid-mix.

I think the reason people feel that vestax try to rip us off is because you continually over-saturate your product line. Look at Ecler, or Technics, they keep it simply, a few solid products that work extremely well. It seems Vestax have products coming out of their ears, and people become disenfranchised with tit all. The fader board and the samurai series are prime examples, I know choice is a good thing, but the choices have to worth me parting with my hard on cash.

But this cd deck looks good, it looks like a decent start, like your dipping your toe in the water so to speak. But the 05 name suggests that there will an 07 version...

hahahaha correction "my hard earned cash" not "hard on cash" :embarrest

i really just want to know if this deck will be more accurate than the dns 3000 as far as pitch goes, and how much can we REALLY expect this deck to retail for? You know...not just the msrg.

Im happy Vestax is looking for feedback about there products before introducing them into the marketplace. Im hardpress to consider buying this cd-player just on some key features not incorporated. I would like to see some sort of external memory cards such as smart media added. Pioneer and Technics have this feature for club djs who use there products. I also believe analog cue marks on the jog dial would make it harder to beat juggle vs digital displays compared to Pioneers CDJ-800/1000 mk2. Cue marks on a non rotating jog dial doesnt make sense if you cant see the cue point like on a rotating record. Adding Tascam's TTM-1 sounds like a good idea but why not make a rack version like Tascam if your going to be using turntables. This also brings up the question,"why not make a cd turntable with a rotating plater that feels like a turntable?" Please dont come out with this player just to have a cdj on the market. This player looks to much like the Axis 9. Heres a idea that will blow peoples mind for anyone willing to read this. A hybrid pdx-2300 mk2 pro with tone arm/cd player capable of playing both cds and vinyl. Plus all these added features mp3, mp4, acc, sampling, looping, 100% pitch, analog filter for cds, smart media storage for cues, hot starts,instant reverse, and master tempo.

Thanks for the comments. As you will probably know the original pitch fader on the PDX has been changed to have more resistance as that seemed to be most popular.
Re: vogmuget - I (sort of) understand your point, although you could say Technics simply haven't bothered to offer anything new, depends on your viewpoint. We try to have different products aimed at different market sectors/styles of dj'ing. And I dont think you can include the Faderboard in this discussion as it is a compeltely different product, a bit like including some Technics hi-fi product. It is difficult knowing which products to do and which to stop, a great example is the 05/06/07Pro scratch mixers. If we stopped for example the 06Pro a lot of people would be unhappy because it is so slim, but the 07 offers extra features (like if reverse, pgm reverse, etc), and the 05 is still the original basic mixer, so all have a place. Similar with all products really.
Re: trungle - we do not set msrp's in the UK. We have our trade prices and the dealers then set the prices for retailing. Therefore itis difficult to give an exact price, and as with most other things it will vary from one dealer to another. Cant answer the pitch accuracy yet, hopefully in a few weeks.
Re: 12micsn1 - Lots of interesting points. Price is the main answer to all, we could add all these features but then it would not be £349. The Pioneer and Technics are both much more expensive because they haev the extra features. It would be very difficult (and pointless) to bring out another cdj with the same features at the same price, so we are trying to offer something different. It does look like an Axis, and many others, but that is due to the designers wanting to put things in a sensible layout. Most decks look very similar, as do many mixers, as this is generally the most ergonomic layout. And there is no point us doing a rack version as Tascam already do them! With regards to your "mind-blowing idea".....it is already been looked at, and I have used the prototype. BUT, if we did release it, how much would you be willing to pay for this type of product, because it certainly would not be £400/$600!! We (and most other manufacturers) could easily produce products which do absolutely everything, but the high price would make them completely unaffordable to their target market, so we have to try and make something within a price range and pick which features we want to include. Sad....but true.

Re: Vestax UK- Im real impressed with the followup response. I would like to see other manufacturers do the same by coming here for comments about there products before launching them into the marketplace. This might actually help make all products become better or introduce new ideas for up and coming future products in the pipeline. I do agree people are price concious when it comes to there purchasing decision. We all might want the luxury car as a first choice but our pocket books tell us we might have to settle for the economy car. People are on different scales of income and purchasing power. Im really waiting to see any prototypes of a hybrid cd/turntable that can play both cd and vinyl. How can car companies design concept cars we may never see on the road but draw a huge amount of feedback from consumers at car shows around the globe? This should be the same for djs everywhere. I dont have a clue about how much it would cost but Im sure I would like to see if its worth my money anyways. Having consumer feedback on any product has so many pluses to ignored. It would probably cost millions if the product is a bomb in the marketplace. With all this inovation coming to the DJ world from computer software to cd turntables we still see manufacturers holding back. Im also wondering if a idea or product cant be made cost effective. That other manufacturers will join in to form an alliances to bring innovative products to the market an keep cost down. Having owned 2 CDJ-1000s and 2 PDX-2000 I would like to see how much a hybrid cd/turntable w/tone arm would cost. Plus add in the need for furniture and space into the cost.

^_^ lovely.. surely its on my target list of equipments for my mobile dj's.....hope the pricing will be reasonable.....just love vestax.....hope my contact at japan can give these kind of treats.....

Buy a CDX, Buy A complete technics tonarm+RCA PCB & mount it on some plastic wood etc, and make it so it can easily be clipped or clamped onto a cdx without being too bulky, and there you go. It could definitely already be done, I actually think they should take all the stupid effects and crap out of the cdx and then put the tonearm in and they could sell it for the same price, It would seriously cost little more than a $100 to do this yourself at home, and im sure they get better prices......... WHY ARE THEY HOLDING BACK?
Oh yeah they want to cash in on all of "last weeks" ideas before they can release the shit we really want. GIVE US THE HYBRID TABLE PLEASE.
HOW LONG WILL IT BE? There's probably some tech playing with a prototype right now

Well talkin about vestax..I own PDX 2000 and hadn't the chance yet to test the new MKII version.How does the platter feel?
Between techs and Vestax.?Is is just lower..or can you adjust the record's speed by using the center tip?(for mixing purposes for example...no possible on PDX 2000)
I'll just add that Vestax trully remain close to the customer.I had some problems with a product I wawsn't happy with..tried Vestax France (the barely new what I was talkin about..lol).and then tried Vestax Japan.They responded me..gave me technical points....sent me stuff...you would not believe me.^^Glad to see Vestax U.K keeps the same spirit as in Japan.peace.

FLOL @ Halfasemitone and Ipso! not for here though guys you wanna discuss it, www.snoopy.force9.co.uk and we everyone can discuss it there.

Back to the matter at hand THE VESTAX CD, player.

I have to say, i think the two main points here are:

A: it's more choice for the consumer
B: it's a CD player that while it's not completely aimed at it also has the option for use by a Tablist.

for my mind that's a good thing.

peace

Monk-A

Is this cd deck generally made to be used along with turntables, or do you expect people to use these alone with thier mixer? (like people do with cdj800/1000 or denon 3000/5000.

Hey! i saw the article on this site a little bit back, and the picture showed small parts of 3 new vestax products. One was the cd deck...WHAT WERE THE OTHERS?? Please fill us in vestax. Can we expect an effects unit? a new mixer? These are supposed to come out september right?

Lets get back to the subject at hand here.

(Judging from the pics and specs) this Vestax CD player seems to be a good buy (if you are not an all out sratch/battle DJ). It seems to have all the features I'd need, with no fancy extra "fluff". If it plays CD/MP3's and sounds good, works well and is sold at a great price, that's great!

All I want in a CD player is something that works like my good ol' Technics 1200's. I want to be able to pop in a CD and play it like vinyl. No fancy samplers or effects, no crazy pitch ranges....just play, stop, cue and pitch. and of course some type of manual user interface (jog wheel etc).

That's my 2cents

is q-bert or MMM gonna be demonstrating the unit?

I'm with Jonny on this one. I simply want a deck that can give me the benefits of CD but with vinyl feel. I don't however want to be at the mercy of a laptop (no - not even an Apple one KD!. I'm not fussed about samplers or effects. Loops are nice though, as are cue point to make up for the lack of needle drop. All those extras are great but simply add hundreds into the price. All I want to do is simulate as closely as possible using a vinyl deck but without having to buy vinyl or needles.

I was wondering is the Tascam CD-x1500 dual cd player n e good?

All I'm saying is that a piece of paper is not necessary to qualify as a musician. If you or someone else wants that, cool, go for it, but don't act like everyone else HAS to do the same thing.

"Telling then (sic)they're not musicians is counter productive." Well, that's what you keep doing. You're also confusing "musical" with "not very good". Those are two different things. Of course people should keep trying to be better. Also, I was not aware that you respected Q-Bert and people like him as musicians. From the tone of your posts that I read and responded to, you seemed to be implying that only people that went to school are real musicians. I apologize.

Not true. Some people with an open mind, if being properly educated about the subject will come to that conclusion. Herbie Hancock respected Grandmixer DST (now DXT)way back then, Bob James respects Rob Swift, etc., etc.

Those aren't the kinds of biases that I'm talking about. It's more a case of "People should cut out all of this street Hip-Hop nonsense, go to school, and write turntablist compositions in D-Minor" (not an actual quote, obviously). That's the kind of shit that I'm talking about. It seems to me that you're embarrased that this artform comes from Hip-Hop and you're trying to distance yourself from it and think that everyone else should, too. If you prefer digital, cool. I know that there are master drummers that use electronic drum sets, too, but wouldn't criticize acoustic drums. What you like is what you like, so use it, but realize that this comes from vinyl, so dissing it is kind of stupid. I personally prefer vinyl to scratch with, but I would also use a digital medium. They both have pluses and minuses.

Yeah, I agree, it's good to sharpen and refine your skills. Also, if scratching in clave is relevant to what someone is doing, than they should learn that, if not, it's just something extra to learn - not a necessity.

What I meant was that it seems that you are always seeking approval from everyone and that you should be able to have confidence in your own status as a musician without anyone having to tell you that. I meant it as constructive criticism, not as an insult. I used to have the same problem. Letting the art speak for itself validates it way more than constantly begging people to look at how great it is.

Semantics. Be a little more clear on what you mean. Not being good is not the same thing as not being musical. I was under the impression, from your own posts, that you were saying that unless Scratch DJ's do whatever it is that you are doing, then we are not true musicians. Knowing about clave is NOT personally relevant to what I do.

I don't hate anyone, including you. I hate the abrasive, inflammatory, unclear, pretentious comments that you make. Also, the reason why most people won't give this artform respect is because of personal biases and hatreds, so, who's respect are you trying to get? Insecurities, period, and insecurity about what you are doing are two different things. My point is, if you need outside validation so much, do YOU really respect what you are doing?

Battling is something else with different rules. It is musical, but it isn't just about musical skills, there are other factors involved. Again, that's the Hip-Hop thing, it seems that that's the real problem. Dissing is a part of it which is even utilized by - DJ Noize.

Oh, my mistake. You implied it by saying that you talk shit "about what YOU do" (emphasis is mine). Also, wouldn't you rather learn "turntablism" from a school taught by actual "turntablists" rather than people that know nothing about it? If you want to learn more after that point, THAN you can do so, which is what I did. Some things are the same from the 90's, and some aren't. You don't just disregard something because it's older, you improve upon it and integrate it with new techniques and styles. Also, arguing and making vague comments aren't going to help anyone or anything. Constructive criticism will. It seems that I was wrong about some of your opinions, which made me stand up to defend against what I considered baseless shit-talking and insults.

That was my attempt at being sarcastic or sardonic.

Come on, you've never called someone an asshole before? I did that because that was my impression of how you were acting. It wasn't originally meant to be a debate, it was meant to be standing up to what I perceived as attacking and disrespecting me and many people on this forum. If it was a formal debate, I wouldn't have done that. If you look up integrity it can be an unimpaired condition (I was sober), adherence to a code of moral, artistic, or other values (which I did), or the quality or state of being complete or undivided (which I again, did). Saying "Thanks for the debate, asshole." wouldn't make any sense because me defending myself does not make me an asshole. As for the Vestax thing, yeah, they could do a lot better than that.

IPSO, this isn't a forum mang, take your bullshit to asisphonics.

Damn.

Back to the topis, you know, the thing you're supposed to talk about?!

Anybody heard anything about these Stanton CD players?:



They look familiar!

pz

its looks like the new cd unit from aa....

Having now tried the unit out for a very short period I can now give the following information.
Pitch - apparently this is adjustable in 0.01 incrememts, depending on which pitch range you have selected. The +/-100% allows you to completely stop playback using the fader. The Master Tempo feature only works on 6 and 10% settings.
Cue points and Samples can be memorised to each disc.
Scratching functions - the unit was tested and demoed by DJ Tommy, a Hong Kong dj who came 2nd in the DMC World Championships a few years ago. It was the first time he had used it but he was impressed by how well it worked, especially when linked to the TT-M1. I also understand a previous demo was made by DJ Hanger (Japanese DJ who has been in DMC World Finals recently) and he too was impressed by it's abilities. I am not a scratch dj but my simple testing seems to show it does work well. I am still not sure about the full capabilities of MP3 tracks as I did not have a cd with mp3's on to test with.
We are hoping to have some test units with us during August and then we will be able to give a more detailed report, and possibly get a unit to Gizmo for him to try out as well.
Answers to other points raised;
Shooba - We expect it to be used with and without turntables, depending on what type of dj is using it. Probably most tablists will use it with the TT-M1 as this gives the vinyl feel together with digital control. But it is also aimed at all other dj's who simply want to mix with cd's, maybe with the occasional simple scratch. They will probably use it on it's own.
Jonny Thrice - features are always difficult. As you can see from previous comments on this section alone some people want lots whilst others want only the basics. We have to look at price and which market(s) we want to hit and then decide what to include and what to leave out. You say you dont want crazy pitch ranges or samplers, but others will love these features. You can simply not use them, but if we left them off then others may not want to buy it. We did discuss a single cd which only did what a turntable did, but decided that a few additional features would make it more attractive to a wider potential audience without increasing the price much. As they say you please all of the people all of the time....but thanks for your comments.
Ikj - in the US Q or MMM may well do some demos. MMM is certainly going to be using the new mk2 PDX decks on his next tour, along with a PMC-007 (I think). In the UK we have not decided who will demo this unit at PLASA. Perhaps we could get someone from this site involved.....any offers?
Jabba - the other products on the flyer (shown on another link) are the QFO and a small turntable made under the new brand name of Gruber. This is not aimed at the turntablist market, more as a domestic piece of audio kit. The QFO is due to begin production this month, so expect the first ones in stores around the world late August. UK street price is now expected to be around £800 and it will not be a limited edition, although obviously units may be in fairly limited supply during the first few months.

ooops....Jonny Thrice's reply should have said "you CAN'T please all of the people all of the time"....that's what happens when you try to type and answer the phone at the same time!

If they have 0.01% steps on the smallest pitch range then they will have done well - I think pitch accuracy is very important. I'm sure I'll have a good set of questions at Plasa.

ok so what are the pitch increments? o.01 .05? .02??

I meant is Q or MMM going to demo the cd unit? (2 cd players and a mixer only)

and its LKJ...forgot to capitalize ^_^

We will have the unit on demo for all to test at PLASA and we look forward to seeing some of you there.
I do not have full details on the pitch increments other than the finest being 0.01. I will try to get more details.
LKJ (sorry) - Either Q or MMM may well demo the cd units at NAMM in January, but this depends on their schedule and the US distributor.
Personally, whilst it is great to watch the top guys demo any kit, I actually believe it is better for each person to try a new product out for themselves. This way they will see if it does what they want, rather than what someone else has prepared for. We intend to have a number of units set up at PLASA to allow as many people to test it as possible.

Ah, cool! Thanks Vestax!

Deft,

I'm think Vestax meant to say .1 not .01%

IPSO,

If you're still reading these posts, I understand what your saying and stand by the worthy adversary comments. "HaterNob" doesn't get it. Great last post.

Well despite Mr Denon's claims I actually meant to say .01% as this is the figure given to me by our Head Office.
We have also checked on the situation of mp3 files and the latest info is that you CAN scratch cd's recorded with mp3 data. The pitch will also work up to +/-100% with these files, although fwd/rev and cue memory points will not work.
The bpm counter is automatic and also has a manual over-ride facility.

How much would you guess that stores in canada would sell this for?